Herbert Meets Hosni

In 1981, Herbert Armstrong met with the then newly installed president of Egypt, Hosni Mubarak, to compare notes. They sort of got off to a rough start:


14 thoughts on “Herbert Meets Hosni

  1. Compare notes? Well, yes… The note was for $100,000.

    The real secret to a successful dictatorship is the power to abuse. It’s even better if you are preceived to be a benign despot by leveraging distorted perceptions.

  2. Herbie must have been right! Every world leader he has met has be removed from office. 🙂 Poor Hosni should not have taken advice from Herb! One despot advising another……

  3. Uh, No2HWA… Um… Many of the world leaders Herbert Armstrong met with died / disappeared within 3 weeks or so of meeting. Some lasted longer, like Marcos. It was all statistically unlikely.

    But in case anyone wants to get all “God intervened” [but if we believed such things, Satan would be more likely the protagonist], it should be pointed out that President Mubarak lasted a lot longer than most… um… “leaders” have ever lasted — particularly as an “elected” president. Thirty years might not be a record, but he did seem to go past five United States Presidents [history will have to play out for us to see if Mr. Obama sets the new record or not].

    Still, the point that Hosni should not have taken advice from Herb is a sound observation. Two things though, he isn’t poor and he didn’t take any advice.

    • I know that, I was just being catty. Herb and crew used to love to brag about how Satan was removing from office all those HWA had traveled around the world to meet. It was Satan’s way for Herb’s gospel to be crushed. At least in their minds!

  4. His own people apparently are going to let Mubarak live, even after being frustrated and, arguably, abused.

    Is it possible that at some point of time the Armstrongist despots will come to the place that they, too, will come to an epiphany to overthrow their abusers?

    It appears that the Armstrongist leadership is engaging in rather risky behavior: The things they have done and are doing are the very things which have been driving revolt for people who finally have hope of freedom.

    Could it be that if or when a revolt occurs among the peons below the glass ceiling, their behavior will be an example of the same restraint exercised by the Egyptians?

    Perhaps the Flurries, Weinlands, Packs and the others could take note of the threat they themselves are stepping into and gracefully exit before tragedy occurs.

  5. It doesn’t seem that clear to me: It appears that the CoGaWA carried on a revolution against the UCG.

    You may be correct about entrenchment among the grey heads of congregations, but the younger folk of Egypt seems to have carried the revolution there and it looks somewhat hopeful that the younger generations of the Armstrongist Delusions are beginning to take over the beginnings of a massive revolution, even as the CoGs splinter into smaller and smaller pieces.

    I’m no longer comfortable with “never”: The past year has been quite a ride already.

    • I don’t know. I had this same hope for the youth. But, honestly, it doesn’t seem like they’re doing much. They’re mostly apathetic, even the ones who take it upon themselves to get out. From what I’ve seen, it’s the ministers who are fighting amongst themselves, and the sheep just go with whomever they like best, or whichever group is doling out the most comforting bullshit (including “the faith once delivered”).

      Sheep are sheep, and “rebellious” lambs are just young sheep. They rush out of the cults without understanding anything, usually in the grip of a teen infatuation; then a few years go by and they start thinking about the fucking Tribulation. It isn’t long before they run crying back to Mommy. It’s discouraging. Where are the young lions, bold and fearless, who have the balls to do their goddamn homework?!

      • Yeah, that’s so right. You know, when I talk the way I do, I just know there are some people who think, “Oh, that Casey’s so full of himself and judgmental.” And they’re right, but the point is that this ain’t rocket science and it isn’t classified information. Anybody with an Internet connection and half a brain can know with certainty that Armstrong was a fraud, and that all his ideas were a half-baked crock of shit. Fuck. I was on board the dissident literature train almost before Half-Deck Campbell and his fool of a yes-man, Cocomise, were halfway out my front door. By the next morning I had shed my Armstrongist skin (and it had already been getting itchy for months anyway). Thank God for the Internets. This is exactly the kind of thing they’re here for, people, so fucking use them! Aaaarrrgggghhhhhh!

        And these “teens!” Gah! They don’t even deserve to be called that! They’re just a bunch of pussies! I thought teens were supposed to be rebellious. Shit. I’ve got more rebellion in my left middle finger than all the so-called teens in all the little cultlets combined! Ya fuckin sissies!

        “Oh, noes, the Twibuwation is coming! Mommy save me from the Nazis! Master Flurry, please let me back in to my comfortable little prison so I can go to a desert paradise with Mommy and Daddy when the Pope takes over the world! I don’t know how to use Google except to search for pirated copies of Twilight movies. Oh, paweeeeaaase!”

        PATHETIC. STUPID. LAZY. Raaaahhhh! Little runts! And they don’t even have the balls to be cool, for Christ’s sake! Philadelphia Singers? Anyone involved in that circus, anyone who put good weed money down for that unadulterated shit lost their teen credentials for life.


        No, you know what? I’m not done… You know those kids in Egypt we were talking about. Yeah. That’s how teenagers are supposed to act, goddammit. You know there were snipers on top of buildings? Picking people off? Yeah. That’s rebellion. You spoiled little fucks sit there in your comfortable little dorms at “Armstrong College” and pretend like you’re princes and princesses while trying to decide what you’re going to order at Starbucks–if you can work up the nerve to sneak off in a car you’re not allowed to be driving. Or you leave the cult so you can be “free,” get coked out of your minds and make babies–ooops! But you never exerted the tremendous amount of energy it would take to click on that link and read how everything you were taught can be proven wrong in a few easy steps.

        So now you sit there, all your wild “rebellious” days behind you, wondering, “What if they were right? Oh, God, what if they were right?” For fuck’s sake, you don’t even have a clue what they might be right about; you were too busy dreaming about how to pimp your ride during the sermons. Pussies! Get on your ass and find out! Crom almighty! You don’t even have to move any part of your body except your fingers! It couldn’t be any easier. Oh. Well, there’s reading. Oh, and thinking, a little bit.

        Yeah. Never mind.

        In the Middle East, teenagers overthrow governments and train to be suicide bombers. In America, they play WoW until they’re little thumbs get tired and then their mommies send them off to bed with a glass of warm milk and a lullaby. Tools.

        Thanks for setting me off, splinter. That was a fun ride.

  6. I agree.

    “Take PCG for instance: while a number of people may become disillusioned and leave the group (maybe even upwards of 40%?) the group itself would remain intact.”

    And most of this 40% will just add their sickly, ignorant bulk to some other part of the CoG cancer. Leaving is not a cure. Reason is.

  7. Teens aren’t the only ones, but at least they can sort of blame their parents, especially because the parents may be their only source of support for the moment. The repression of the extended alcoholic artificial “family” and the attendant PTSD is difficult for a teen to navigate.

    The parents?

    Why would anyone pay for the privilege of being lied to, abused and having their families ripped apart by an insane flaming alcoholic who can’t control his binge drinking?

    • Oh, trust me, if I were the fire and brimstone kind of god, there would be a special place in Hell reserved for the parents (my dad included). As to why they drag their families into this mess, this question keeps coming up and I (and others) keep saying, “Read The True Believer by Eric Hoffer.”

  8. The reason you are right, even in the face of the DUI, is that the congregation just doesn’t do its job of ousting a leader who refuses to follow Scripture, as they are enjoined to do by the Bible. They are supposed to kick the idolator out. They are to rid themselves of the false prophet. Purging a minister, who is held to a higher standard and for whom ad hominum arguments do apply, is an absolute requirement. In fact, some congregations (not in the Armstrongist world) have been known to terminate a minister instantly for adultery — with no possibility of returning to the paid position. They have agreed to abide by the rules which they are conveniently ignoring.

    The problem is, as you have said, is apathy. Apathy results when people are lied to and can do nothing about it. Listen to statements like, “Nothing ever changes around here”. As we have seen in Egypt, though, as soon as the people have power and feel they can do something about the regime they have suffered under, they rebel.

    Do you suppose that at some level, these people following Flurry really do understand that he is a false prophet, that he’s an idolator, pretending to be Christ in the flesh when he isn’t and that he is a profligate spender who is driving them all into bankruptcy? What’s the worst thing we can say about him that we can prove?

    I wonder why they would feel so helpless to stop him, or at minimum, just walk away from the huge personal failure he represents?

    What sort of huge traumatic event will it take to get the people out of this old fraud’s clutches?

  9. It was probably somewhere around 1980 when my wife went to visit her mother and for the Sabbath, she attended a WCG service in Quincy, Washington. “And where in the heck is Quincy, Washington,” you may ask? Let’s just say that it would be a backwater town amidst the sage ticks, cheet grass, tumbleweeds and sagebrush, if there were any water to speak of. It was here that my wife heard what she thought was this “Wonderful” sermon by Gerald Flurry. Apparently, our six pack prophet was not that highly thought of by headquarters, for this was the desolate isolated wilderness one is relagated to when Herbert Armstrong was less than impressed by the loyalty of one sterling minister or another.

    I was horrified when she told me the message and I went running to look up the United States Constitution with the Amendments: He preached that “We don’t have any rights!”. That translates to: “You don’t have any rights!”. God chooses what we can and cannot do, and, not to put to fine a point on it, that means that the opinions of the current cult despot are such sacred doctrines passed down by God that no one dare rebel against the most silly propositions of the reigning cultmeister!

    Apparently, That Six Pack Prophet (not referring to his Abs), has cemented his “no rights” doctrine for his preposterously minor small cult of bankrupt spendthrifting. All members need to be advised that they have no rights whatsoever and never will.

    What is the relationship to the current topic here?

    It doesn’t matter which cult leader there is, whether it be an Armstrongist spit-off, a Fortune 500 Corporation CEO or a nominally Arab Country President, the one overweaning rule is that you have no rights.

    For those of you who have chosen to have no rights, be warned: You will continue to live a miserable enslaved life which you will pass on as an heritage to the next generation of slaves who will have no rights because of your selfish choices.

    But to do it in concert with an island within the isolated desolate wilderness of a backwater town amidst the sage ticks, cheet grass, tumbleweeds and sagebrush in Oklahoma — just to make you and your posterity slaves of a selfish despot without the slightest amount of charisma, who has no care nor respect for you — has no public appeal at all.

  10. Armstrongist lowly cult members should consider what rights they have lost are most important to them.

    This will all be made stunningly clear when the minister speaks from the pulpit to reveal your darkest secrets told in strict confidence to the man, no given publicly to the entire congregation — and with any luck at all, can go viral to all the congregations in the world within 72 hours and maybe even hit the Internet.

    Congratulations, you have no right to privacy.

    Of course, you are not even guaranteed the gratification that the public embarrassment is accurate or even true at all.

    This has all happened before. If you are personally at risk, there’s a good chance it will happen again.

    Prepare for the worst, or if you are early in engaging with the British Israelism based cult, silence and secrecy are platinum.

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